UPDATE: If you haven’t seen the interview yet, you may still do so at this site http://www.pinaswinnawin.com/2012/02/bottomline-february-4-2012.html
Today, Red Tani of Filipino Freethinkers was featured in Boy Abunda’s show, The Bottomline. “Discover the Life Without a God” was the headline of this talk show’s episode. It is in this interview that Boy Abunda digs within Red Tani’s life, beliefs, and philosophies, trying to understand why a former Catholic would become an atheist in a country made up mostly of people who believe in god.
But did Boy Abunda and the rest of the panelists understand what atheism is all about?
Perhaps the limited time and minds that are not so open to beliefs of a different kind could be the hindrance to full understanding. After all, one does not become an atheist in a day. And simply put, it was a show intended to let viewers know that there are people who are atheists. Nothing more.
Though, it definitely hurts that this interview was shown at a time slot when only the insomniacs or the nighttime people are viewing TV. But it’s a start. I agree with one of the panelists’ comments; atheism is definitely gaining ground in this country. But why and how, she asked.
What may not have been picked up by the theists is that Red Tani has given that one definite difference between an atheist and a theist, aside from the the absence of belief in a supernatural being: that even if in the both ends of the spectrum there’ll be strongly militant theists or atheists, the atheist will never be a fundamentalist. I have yet to encounter an atheist who will claim 100% that there is no god. They may be strongly atheistic, but never absolutely 100% percent sure that there is no god. Compare this with a religious fundamentalist who, no matter what happens, no matter what evidence comes up in contrary to his belief, he will still hold that faith. An atheist will respect reason enough to accept his beliefs were wrong, in contrast to a theist fundamentalist. And so, I agree with Red’s statement that, if presented with enough evidence, he will believe in god.
And this is partly the reason why atheism has taken root so well recently in this country. Internet is our boon; it has erased borders and encouraged exchange of ideas never possible during those times when we only depend on our elders for knowledge of what is right and wrong. Remember, those were the times when we were encouraged to “do as you were told” and “never question the wisdom of your elders”. But this age of technology encourages us not to be enslaved by such a thought, as information is already within our grasp and it is only up to us to use our intellect to discern what makes something right or wrong.
The internet has also taught us another important thing: that we are not alone in this. I think every atheist has gone through that phase, thinking “am I the only one who’s crazy thinking of this?” And the internet came. With the rapid exchange of ideas, we realized that this is not some solitary thing that we thought of because we are lonely or ignored. These ideas came about as a product of sound reasoning that is also shared by others who have come up with it using similar processes.
But it would be a disservice to attribute atheism to the increased availability of knowledge, since atheism has already existed even before these religions were born. Rather, it would be suffice to say that our increasing thirst for knowledge made more available to us by a more tolerant society and by technology have encouraged the growth of atheism.
This brings me to the question: why does it seem that the panelists (with the exception of the atheist, Marguerite) seem to be clueless about what atheism is? One of them even claimed that she only heard the topic being discussed during drinking sessions. I may be a little harsh here, but it seemed to me that these supposed educated persons have not even studied the topic prior to this interview. Or may be I should just accept that perhaps the level of discussion was limited to that level simply to be able to include a greater scope of audience, even those who have no background on atheism at all. And the talk show being The Bottomline, maybe it should be noted that they may not really be interested in atheism, but rather, they’re only interested in knowing an atheist…wondering what went wrong with a catholic that he chose to become an atheist instead. Do you believe in the devil? Why not? Do you believe in hell? Why not? Do you believe a person has a soul? Why not? These are the questions of those whose minds cannot grasp the concept that there are those who do not share their beliefs. I’d have to say the question of the priest from the panel seem to insinuate that Red probably had family relationship problems which contributed to his atheism. Such ignorance.
I do not like Boy Abunda’s closing remarks. I do not understand how he could be a “better person by being a better child of god”, when it’s obvious that he already find someone like Red, who’s an atheist, to be a good person. Or perhaps, it could be interpreted in this way: that since Red chose to be an atheist and is a good person in doing so, he chooses to believe in god and be a good person by being a better believer. Well, I still didn’t get it so…
Overall, I’m glad an atheist like Red was given this opportunity to be heard on TV. It may not have reached a wider audience, since the show is slated at such an hour. But this is just the beginning. We, atheists, all started with having questions…having doubts. Planting the seeds of doubt is the beginning. And the most important thing is that we continue to seek answers, not merely relying on passed down knowledge or fear of being on the losing end (Pascal’s wager).
So, to Red, congratulations! Job well done!
It's funny to know that the chosen panelists are not that reliable. I think they should have researched about it first if they are clueless on that sensitive topic.
Semidoppel(Quote)
On the other hand, because of their ignorance, they asked the same questions that an average theist filipino would ask.
rubiscodisco(Quote)
Perhaps. But then, it goes to show how completely clueless most Filipinos are. And most possibly, that is the result of holding on to faith too much.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
Good without god,I beg to disagree that you have yet to meet an atheist who is 100% certain that there is no god,then he is not atheist, —he is Agnostic. I may belong to the rare breed o Gnostic Atheist,I am 110% certain that there is no god and 110% sure of myself I don't believe in one.
Tony Belza
Tony belza(Quote)
@Tony Belza, well, I haven't met you yet haha. But what I'm trying to point out is that, in the face of enough or overwhelming evidence, an atheist may believe in a god. But for most atheists that I know, current evidence will show there is no god and it is unlikely that there'll be evidence proving so. Unlike with a fundamentalist who'd still keep the faith, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there is no god. I am open to such a possibility, as respect for reason. But for me, I'm leaning more towards the conclusion that there is no evidence of a god.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
Note that Boy hinted his reluctance on the topic per se. Maybe part of that reluctance is the stereotypes associated with atheism such as being 'demonic' or 'satanic'.
If only one would keep an open mind, it would be easier to understand atheism.
Enad(Quote)
I think so too. Understanding does not entail acceptance and I think some people are quite reluctant trying to open themselves up to atheism, fearing they'd lose their "faith".
PrudenceMD(Quote)
Being an open gay, I hoped that Boy abunda would have a more open mind with his interview with the topic. The Catholic church is not open and condemns gay marriage ad relationships, so this would have been enough fuel for him to at least question the teaching of his religion, but maybe I was wrong to think of him on this light. Wished someone in Youtube could upload this video for us to share.
Chris A.(Quote)
When you believe in an evidence to prove your faith, that is not already faith. Faith means being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Bryan(Quote)
Well, that is useful individually, as each person has a right to believe in what he deems believable. But when such beliefs affects a vast number of people who do not share that same belief, it is only but proper to disregard such beliefs in consideration of actions affecting everyone, believer or nonbeliever.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
red tani proves that we dont need a god in able to be a nice person.
emceemharz(Quote)
Yes, it isnour choice whether we'll do good or bad things. It is not a predetermined thing.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
i dont believe that it all started in a Big Bang.
Starter(Quote)
Perhaps. But theories such as the Big Bang has a more reasonable basis than a creator who created a world in 6 days, which, by the way, is not a theory because it does not have reasonable basis.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
Did he saw Big Bang? He said that he don't believed in God because no empirical truth could prove his existence. So then, what empirical truth could prove where the molten rock of the big bang came from?
Lux(Quote)
Arbitrary big bangs don’t create timing and order and beauty of nature; they create chaos. Just look at a big bang caused by a terrorist bomb, or by the Krakatoa volcano, and you will see very little beauty, timing, and order anywhere. The odds of the beautifully ordered universe we know and love happening all on its own through a big bang is approximately the same as a tornado going through a junk yard and assembling a 747 jumbo jet, all by itself. A big bang caused by an intelligent Creator, on the other hand, could cause the beauty of nature, as well as timing and order.
And where do evolutionary scientists get off claiming to know anything about God or theology? God exists outside of space, time, and matter, so how can scientists, who deal with space, time, and matter, claim to be able to say anything at all about the existence of God? You can’t put God under a microscope, like a germ or bacteria. Just because someone has a degree or two in science does not make him an expert on God, theology, or religion.
etcetera(Quote)
Why your eyes was not placed in your tummy if we are created accidentally.. That,s the reason why we have creator.
Ujd(Quote)
The atheists who don't believe that God exists because according to them they could not find evidence of God's existence cannot also prove that God does not exist.
nick rosal(Quote)
The burden of proof lies in the believers, not the nonbelievers. If there's a person who believes in a flying teacup revolving around the moon, the burden of proof that such exists lies on the one who believes such.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
I have to say one thing….. how do I get hold of Red Tani? I am very interested to meet him.
Henry Domondon(Quote)
Send him a message thru the Filipino freethinkers fb page
PrudenceMD(Quote)
i watched this interview just recently. I think the time Red had those question about God, he was talking to people does not have enough understading to explain God. those people he asked did not do their assignment before talking to him or maybe they were not paying attention to his question.. there are people were athiest and from their study and continues seeking of the existence of God, they are now follower of Christ. I pray that he continue seeking and talk to right people who have good grasp about Christianity..
Boston(Quote)
Red Tani is not that REAL ATHEIST as they were saying…
he is a NATURALIST a person who seeks evidences before believing..
there would be no loss if you believe in God..
and if there would be God and you dont believe it..
i think that would be a BIG LOSS…
catherine(Quote)
…then you are just believing for that reason?
marti(Quote)
I completely missed watching this episode. I hope someone from Youtube can upload it. Man, I used to watch The Bottomline with Boy Abunda but with its pretty late and forgettable timeslot, missing this special episodesis bound to happen.
Well, what else can you expect from theists?
Chris A.(Quote)
You can watch it on pinoy-ako.info or pinoychannel.tv
Gers(Quote)
i was once a passionate Catholic, but then i came to the point of exploring my free will – the will to question what others consider taboo. it's a point of no return for some. i'm not exactly proud of what i have become ( a non-believer ) and the truth is, i 'wish' i could go back. but it's not that simple. 'blessed' are those who do have their respective faith. however, it's quite a shame that these faithful ones seem to be 'blinded' with the norms and dictates of religious sects. it's sad that atheists seem to understand both their own views and that of theists more than theists do. this is just my opinion of course. per observation, theists almost automatically react negatively about things they dont understand – like the existence of atheists – but ironically their being theists speak for their acceptance of immeasurable and unexplainable divine aspects.
kjade(Quote)
free thinkers = me thinkers
etcetera(Quote)
Not everything science can prove is what it really is or what really happened and not everything science can’t prove does not exist.
janine vincent(Quote)
It's gonna be aired this Saturday right? I saw the commercial with my mom and immediately she's on "judgey" mode. Maybe our country isn't really that open-minded yet in terms of this aspect. I agree with Janine Vincent, "Not everything Science can't prove does not exist." And I'm also glad like you that someone like Red was given the opportunity to do "The Talk". I'm not an atheist, I was brought up a believer, not strictly, I was more pious when I was three than I am now (Guess I've see the very little portion of the Earth), but maybe I'm looking for a miracle. A more concrete one. Guess my faith isn't strong enough. I dunno. Am I a skeptic? I dunno.
Anyway I really wanna see this interview.
Isabella(Quote)
There are a lot of things in this world that cannot be explain that even scientist have their own perceptions and observations and does not come into one conclusion. An atheist in my opinion simply states as "TO SEE IS TO BELIEVE". They don't believe in god until they would see. It can relate to as to people who believe in ghost and people who don't. There are many people who believe that ghost exist it is because they themselves witnessed already unlike to those who haven't experience they definitely do not believe it's because they haven't seen a ghost yet. right?
gers(Quote)
I agree. I didn't like Boy's closing remarks. Just because you believe in God doesn't make you a better person. Red emphasized the significance of being respectful. Boy's parting message "God be with you" was so disrespectful. That is not something you would say to someone with a different belief or religion. Then he closes with him being a better person?!
It's all about respecting each others and their beliefs. Be respectful, loving, and compassionate. Be a good person whether or not you believe in God. That's what will make you a "better person".
Paula(Quote)
I completely agree with you Paula : )
Julian(Quote)
My rational side tells me "there is no God"
My scared human side tells me "To believe in God"
It's part of the human experience "Not to know" and if we "Do Not Know" … "Something needs to be made up" to provide answers : )
I just like to be a good person: not hurt anyone, not steal from anyone … not get jealous … not want things.
These are things I believe in. Godwise — I need to talk to him. I have so much to tell him. I'll tell him "I forgive him".
-Julian http://www.JuliansFlight.com
"The Colour Of Melody"
Julian(Quote)
@Julian, "I forgive him". Why forgive him? did he do something bad to you? You have a psychological problem with differing views as you are exercising your prejudice by applying your theology of sin.
The problem with the indoctrinated people of the Philippines is that they have fused to their personality the monopoly of being good while the opposite is more obvious. They have built their identity as the sole image of good and has established that disbelief is an automatic stereotype of being bad. Please note that the spaniards who introduced Christianity are no saints or having good intentions for natives as similar as their bloody conquest in south America, killing people for gold. Kay Jose Rizal palang di na nakapasa ang Kristyanismo pano pa kaya ngaun, but the grasp of christian indoctrination is strong and vicious.
Religion is obsolete in modern world and has anyone read their bible lately, no one does because they prefer to be a sheep and obey. Robots and zombies had been operating in this world far too long, it is time to transcend this cult behavior and make reason the standard of being human in conjunction with the information technology that we now possess.
Juste(Quote)
I have no problems at all … In fact, I'm at peace with everything — I'm content.
Whether I'm wrong or right … that doesn't matter.
I forgive the so called Catholic God for creating us and putting all these hormones inside us and then expects us to be perfect in spirit, otherwise we'll go to Hell. (which I suspect is made up).
Are human being his Toys?
Does he play with us?
Still be because I'm human (and I don't know) … I chose to have an open mind.
This is all I can tell you. Done deal : )
Julian(Quote)
Well, then, at least, continue searching for the answers to your questions. Better be doubtful than a smug theist/atheist
PrudenceMD(Quote)
I was looking for the the video again, although I've watched it before. As a scholar in philosophy of religion and science, my observation with typical Christians are that they are lazy to read what they believe in and to even entertain other books that don't follow their holy book. That is why atheists and agnostics label them as ignorant, sometimes bigoted and dogmatic as contrary to scientific method.
They are very opinionated in all aspects of morality, tells you what is good and bad based from anecdotal lessons from elders, priests and teachers, but they do not even know or read any or most of the arguments from both sides, something you can expect from a spoon feed educational system. Pascal's wager has already been argued strongly and convincingly destroyed it by many as a logical fallacy and most other arguments of theists are (in the light of critical thinking and the scientific lens) very weak and are either deliberate lie or pure act of hypocrisy. Christians are literally unaware that they are swimming in the ocean of hypocrisy. If you want to ask me about anything regarding science and religion, you are welcome. I will present to you all arguments that theists has presented even back from Plato's time, you will be surprised how anti-intellectual theists are.
Critical thinking today is a must if you really want to be a good citizen and not be a dick to someone or something you don't know. Critical thinking can be applied to all aspects of life and your integrity and sense of justice will greatly improve, plus you will develop an acute awareness of your own biases so you can properly trace back your wrong actions and correct them, that is the hallmark of humility.
Zaldy(Quote)
That would be interesting, Zaldy. I'm curious, though, if you keep/maintain a blog for this? It would be a nice niche for a blog.
PrudenceMD(Quote)
That's a problematic way to interpreting atheism. You already assume that there exists a being called "god", instead of the concept or placeholder. It's different from asking for evidence. Just like in your example, the very concept of a ghost is problematic for skeptics, and there's (as far as I know) no universally agreed definition of a ghost or explanation for their existence.
Angélica Marie(Quote)
don’t seek for an ANSWER, if you’re not sure of what you’re ASKING for. . . .
Yippekayay(Quote)
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